As we have discussed the Odyssey in class one thing that stood out to me was the personality and identity of Odysseus. Odysseus is portrayed as handsome, wise, smart, brave, humble, and a man that displays honor. These characteristics have also shaped his personality as someone who is honorable, brave, and someone that may resemble a God.These characteristics have been both good and bad for Odysseus in the story. The positives are that through these characteristics he was able to help win the Trojan War for the Atheans and get Helen back for Menelaus. These characteristics have also saved his life numerous times and the great wit or wisdom he posses helps him to solve great problems. Odysseus wit and intellect is the greatest of anyone that is in the human-world as Zeus says. The negative effect of these characteristics are that people tend to like him more and more and want to marry and keep him like Calypso. The king later in the story and the daughter also want him to stay and then get married however Odysseus desperately wants to go back to Ithaca to his wife, son, and his kingdom. Odysseus' personality and characteristics also please the God's and especially Athena who is trying to do everything in her power to get Odysseus back home. Although Odysseus had angered Poseidon and him being the reason that Odysseus hasn't reached home safely yet the Gods have a plan to send him home and truly represents that they have sympathy for him and are amazed at how he has faced difficulty after difficulty and through his wit overcome every single one.
I agree with you Gary. Odysseus has to be smart in order to not offend the people who want him to marry their daughters. And if it wasn't for Odysseus the Trojan War could have gone on for another ten years. At first Athena is the only god who wants to help Odysseus get home while the other gods don't care. But Athena is able to convince them to help him get home and also uses it as a way to help Telemachus become a man just like his father.
I agree with you gary, another point i can add to your post is that although this is an epic and he is a "god", he resembles a human. When he gets upset he tends to cry over things. This doesn't mean that he is a baby, like you said Odysseus is a brave, wise, and humble man who ended the Trojan war! He just wants to get back home to be with his family, but if he has trouble getting home, he has a right to be upset. It is not a negative or positive characteristic but i think is interesting to notice about Odysseus within the epic, that he tends to get upset when he sits down and realizes that he just wants to return back to his family, but it is becoming so difficult for him to return home.
I agree and disagree with Gary. I agree that Odysseus is portrayed as wise, smart, brave, humble and honorable. I think that these characteristics make him god-like, but to a certain extent. For example when Odysseus goes to the Phaiecens, and cries when they play the song about Troy, he feels remorse because he knows what he did at Troy. This could be shown as a sign of weakness that the gods would never show. But, later on when they almost praise the way that the Greeks won the Trojan war, we see a bit of arrogance come out in Odysseus as he admires his own work in the Trojan war. This arrogance is an almost standard characteristic of the Greek gods, such as the almighty Zeus, and Poseidon MPer
I definitely agree with you guys, but I think mike said it best of how Odysseus can be wise, smart, brave, humble, and honorable, but also have a side to him that shows how he does have some weakness. As you all said Odysseus shows his "god-like" characteristic when he was able to help the Greeks win the Trojan War for the Atheans. I want to add to this by saying I feel he also shows these characteristics when Odysseus and his ship members escape from Polyphemus, Odysseus was smart enough to figure a plan to get away without anyone of his shipmates getting killed or hurt in which he succeeded doing. So I feel like these "god-like" characteristic really are shown here because he was smart, wise and brave about doing this because the father of Polyphemus is looking for revenge against Odysseus and his ship members. But, on the other hand as Mike and Nick said Odysseus can also show some weakness when he cries when the song is playing at Troy. Another way he shows weakness and bad decision making is when his violence towards the suitors almost causes a war. Odysseus loves to taunt and tease his enemies and I feel like if he really was resemblance of a god he would not do this. So, I feel that Odysseus does have moments when his god-like characteristic are good, but he also have some negative and weakness traits.
In class we discussed how Telemachus is not brave enough to speak up to the suitors to get them out of his home and believes he can't live up to his fathers reputation. It is not till Athena comes to Telemachus as Odysseus' friend from the war does he become more brave to speak up to the suitors to try and get them out. He's actually brave enough to go on his first adventure in search of his father. But Telemachus also knows that everyone knows Odysseus is the great war hero who helped win the war and feels it is hard for him to live up to his fathers reputation.
I believe that Telemachus was always brave, even from the start of the epic. At first Telemachus' feebleness can be attributed to the fact that he has had no role model to follow or teach him how to act. Deep down inside I believe Telemachus is the same has his father, cunning, witty, and brave.
Now that we read further and actually met Odysseus I think that Telemachus is the complete opposite of his father. We can see that Odysseus is a hubristic man who is responsible for the death of many of his followers. Telemachus is a person who hasn't really done anything and does not seem to care. As Dominick said Telemachus didn't do anything until Athena came to him. After meeting his father I feel that Telemachus doesn't have to live up to his father's reputation. His father is a man who seems to be only concerned about himself. He is not doing things for the benefit of everyone else. He is merely acting for his own pride. Thus Telemachus should not have to live up to his fathers reputation because his father only did it for pride in himself. Telemachus should make a name for himself and not have to be made into the image of his father.
In my previous blog I have stated how Odysseus' characteristics have shaped his personality, however these characteristics also serve to show a human form of Odysseus. The characteristics in specific that show Odysseus being human are greed and arrogance. For example when Odysseus is staying in Phaencia and King Alcinous orders there to be dancing and singing, Odysseus requests the Bard to sing about the Trojan Horse and about the royal Odysseus. Odysseus in a way does this to recall the memories of the Trojan War but is being arrogant because everyone is familiar with the story and he in a sense is doing it to hear good praise about himself. An example of Odysseus being greedy is when he is on the journey to return home, Odysseus stops at one of the islands where "there I destroyed the town and slew its men.. and took great stores of treasure" although in this time period it was survival of the fittest, this image we receive of Odysseus is of a greedy killer than is contrarily to what we picture in our heads of him being noble and humble. Shortly after they come some island and decide to rest and eat and make merry with all the wine and riches that they captured from the Ciconians that Odysseus see smoke coming from one of the islands and displays arrogance once again by saying "… go to discover who these men may be- if they are fierce and savage… no kind to strangers and reverent toward the gods." Odysseus is being arrogant because he thinks of himself as great and a valor warrior that should be treated with respect and honor and these men are having a feast and merry time without him. Then we see the human quality of greed again when he takes with him special wine that was given to him by Maron to try to give to the strangers and in return receive a gift of great value and size. Lastly we see Odysseus being arrogant when he escapes from death and says to the Cyclop " when i was far away I shouted, .. no weakling's comrades you were destined to devour in the deep cave with your brutal might… it was also destined your bad deeds should find you out…" just add salts to the wounds of the Cyclops and then ironically Odysseus and his crew might have gotten stranded on the island when the Cyclops in anger throws the top of the hill toward the ship and a great wave emerged as the stone hit the bottom of the ocean. The traits of arrogance and greed surely create a human form for Odysseus and might create more problems going forth on this long journey toward home.
Two important themes that i observed in this epic are Perseverance and Loyalty. For the theme of perseverance, Odysseus has been away from his home for 20 years. 10 during the trojan war and 10 during his journey back home. On his journey back home Odysseus shows traits of courage, determination, and wit. Odysseus wants to return home so that he can show that he made it back alive after ending the Trojan war. He wants to return home to his family and town in order to gain the respect he deserves. Another example is when calypso held him captive for a couple of years and he was unable to trick nor fight his way out. For the theme of loyalty, the entire time Odysseus is away both his wife and son stay loyal to him by staying true to their family and not giving up on him. Penelope stays faithful to Odysseus and does not fall for any of the suitors that she is tempted by. One of the most difficult tasks Odysseus is faced with is when the goddess-nymph tempts him with immortality but Odysseus turns it down, stays loyal and is determined to return home.
Nick, loyalty is shown throughout the work not only by the Gods and Goddesses but also by the comrades of Odysseus, Odysseus’ comrades agree to go in the cave with him knowing that something seemed sketchy, hence the fact that they wanted to board the ship and go fourth with their journey back home. In essence they trust the word of Odysseus and follow behind him thinking that their leader will not lead them into any harm. His men become martyrs of war because they eventually are eaten by the Cyclopes. Therefor the theme of loyalty repeats. This also shows that being loyal can ultimately bite you in the end, no pun intended. You also left out the point that his son Telemachus is loyal to his father, going on a journey to find him knowing that he may or may not come out alive. I believe this is a strong trait that is shown throughout the family and will come together to help the family later in the story. CCar
I agree with both nick and chris in saying loyalty is a strong theme showed throughout this epic. I think it is important that Odysseus and his men are on the same page because they will have better chemistry together. I think if you are in a battalion of men that it is important to trust your leader because he is the leader for a reason and uses great judgment. His job is to prepare you and give best judgment possible and the comrades make sure to trust their leader odysseus. I dont feel like it will come to back to bite you if you stay true to who you are. you must trust your leader no matter what and trust he will lead you to victory like odysseus tried his best to lead his men to vicotry as well.
The women in the Odyssey are displayed as very cunning. Penelope is constantly harassed by many suitors daily. These suitors take what they and do what they please. This is shown when they live off of Odysseus' land despite protests from Telemachus. Penelope finds a way to keep the aggressive suitors at bay by making them an empty promise that if when she finishes weaving a burial cloak, she'll choose her husband, but every night she would unravel it making it an endless cycle. In the work Helen willingly goes with the Trojans sparking the Trojan War. She deceives the people and insists she was taken, and would praise her husband Menelaus in front of people to convince people she is completely dedicated to her husband. In both examples, the women use their wit in order to get through their troublesome situations.
I agree with you kryollos. The women in this work display a very cunning personality. Penelope unweaves the part of the cloak that she worked on during the day everynight. She does this because she made a promise to chose her new husband among the suitors after finishing the cloak. Helen is another cunning women. The war started over her being taken away. Her husband and country thought she was captured but they did not know that she willing left. In these times women were still inferior to men and were thought of as dependent. Penelope and Helen use their wits that the men of this time dont believe they have. The men see them as innocent and dependent yet Penelope and Helen out smart the men of this work rather easily. Penelope and Helen are able to keep up their acts of fooling the men for a while.
I found so far that this work may be trying to show sympathy for Odysseus and his family. Odysseus is still struggling to make his glorious return home after 20 years away because of a war. Half of which were spent on an island with Calypso who fell so inlove with Odysseus she had him trapped there with her. Odysseus has his loyal wife Penelope and his son Telemachus, who has yet to get to know him, waiting for him at home. Odyssues finally gets freed of Calypso by the gods but is still running into obstycles as he fighs his way home. Penelope is fighting to remain loyal to Odysseus as she has numerous suitors who seem to be taking Odysseus' possessions at their will. Penelope is doing what she can to remain faithful that Odysseus will return home. Penelope also uses stalling tactics to prevent picking a new husband. She promises to chose a husband after she is done weaving a cloak for Odysseus' father. Everynight Penelope unweaves what she had done for the day with the cloak. Telemachus has been a timid and weak boy his whole life due to not having his father there as he grew up. Telemachus finally builds enough courage, after help from Athen to go on a search for his father. Telemachus is now struggling to find himself on his journey to finding Odysseus. Telemachus doesnt seem like he will be the hero his father was during the war.
A characteristic in which Odysseus possesses which I believe may be his most crucial to his returning home is his cleverness with words. A prime example in which Odysseus uses his great speaking ability when preparing to leave Calypso to go to Phaeacia. When the nymph offers the option of staying to rule her kingdom to Odysseus he says, "Powerful Goddess, do not be worth at what I say. Full well I know that heedful Penelope, compared with you, is poor to look upon in height and beauty..." Odysseus is flattering Calypso in order for her not to be upset or angry with his leaving. Another time you see Odysseus' brilliance with words is when first approaching the king and queen of Phaeacia. Knowing in order to get accepted by the people of this isolated island is being approved by the queen first he throws himself at her feet and says, "Arete, daughter of divine Rhexenor, to your husband I am come, and to your knees, through many toils, and to these feasters too. The gods bestow upon them the blessing of long life, and to his children may each one leave the wealth within his hall and every honor men have given. But quickly grant me aid to reach my native land; for long cut off from friends I have been meeting hardship." Again, Odysseus is flattering the Queen by throwing himself at her feet and ultimately making her feel sympathy for him being away from his home land. These words get him accepted by the Queen and King and the people who will help him to move onward in his journey.
I agree with your analysis Gary. To add onto what you have already said, I believe Odysseus' encounter with Nausicaa also supports your thesis. When presented with an awkward situation, Odysseus uses good word choice to "help him move onward in his journey" as Gary stated. Odysseus states, "For I never before saw such a being with these eyes- no man, no woman. I am amazed to see." Odysseus acknowledges a physical trait such as Nausicaa's eyes in order to flatter her and to make her feel more comfortable with him. He then goes on to say, "…I admire and marvel now at you, and greatly fear to touch your knees." Again, Odysseus tries to flatter Nausicaa and later we see his method of flattering eventually benefits him as he gets directions to the palace of the Phaeacians which may help him get back home. In conclusion, Odysseus agains uses his "cleverness with words" in order to "move onward in his journey."
In reading over this past weekend, I was really intrigued by one thing: seeing the greed in Odysseus's shipmates. When Odysseus speaks with Aeolus, Aeolus gives him a bag full of wind in which Odysseus can use to get him and his crew back home. After 9 days pass they're just about almost home. But, many of the crew members suspect the bag of wind to actually contain gold and silver as a gift to Odysseus. The crew members feel they deserve fortune and as a result they rip open the bag, only to have all the wind be released into the air. Because of this selfishness and greed on the part of the shipmates, the boat is once lost again and eventually lands back with Aeolus and onto the island of the Laestrygonians, where many of the crew members die. Ultimately, this greed led to severe consequences, in this case death, for the ship mates.
I completely agree with you Joe, while reviewing this literary work and hearing the discussions in class I to see the greed in Odysseus's shipmates. Odysseus refuses immortality but receives a godly power of controlling the wind. He just wants to get back to his family whose been waiting for him for many years and he just keeps on getting set back from his journey. The shipmates basically killed themselves by opening up the bag of winds, lucky for Odysseus he survived but is once again set back from his journey.
I agree with both of you guys. The shipmates greed eventually causes their own death because of opening the bag of winds. All Odysseus wanted to do was to have a nice trip home after spending the last 20 years of his life away from home. This intrigued me in class the past couple of days because of the fact that Odysseus was blamed for the killing of his men by not stepping up and helping them out meanwhile the men caused death to themselves, in this case their greed. These men made the journey home hard for Odysseus. In the end, this deed comes back to bite them which is why greed is the root of all evil.
I agree with all of you guys that greed takes over Odysseus' shipmen but I also see gluttony as another major flaw the men posses. These two flaws are prominent reasons why Odysseus' journey has become a struggle and a true test of his character and god-like attributes. Gluttony is shown when the men eat the fruit of the lotus and entreat Odysseus to take food from Polyphemus' cave. Greed is shown, as mentioned, when the men open the bag of winds thinking gold and silver were inside. Because of these flaws Odysseus must try to save himself as well as his men. He saves his men from the fruit, by forcing them back on the boat, but after that it becomes more and more of a struggle for Odysseus. While getting the food from the cyclops' cave he and his men are captured as food for Polyphemus, 6 men perish and Odysseus is left to be a hero. And when the men open the bag of winds they end up on the land of Laestygonia, where boulders were thrown at their ships by the gods leaving only Odysseus' ship unharmed. Greed and Gluttony do play a major role in Odysseus' journey in a negative way.
While reading over the weekend, I've taken note that Odysseus is not your average character. Odysseus is daring and takes risks when he has to. In my opinion, Odysseus is smart about the risks that he makes especially when he and his ship men escape from Polyphemus. Odysseus devises a plan to get Polyphemus drunk and in the end after Polyphemus was passed out the crew and Odysseus burn Polyphemus's eyes out. This is a daring move because of the fact that Polyphemus's father is looking for vengeance on Odysseus and his crew. Although it was a daring move for Odysseus to devise a plan to escape it was a must or else these men would have been stuck in the cave for a long time. I don't necessarily blame Odysseus for doing this move because he was doing what was best at the time for the crew and to get home.
I agree Joe, Odysseus does take very daring daring risks in order to escape the situation he and his shipmates are in. In some situations he is able to help them escape as in the time you mentioned but there are times when his men get killed because of his daring risks. The instance where he gets his men hurt is when they are on the land of Cyclops and they are safe on the beach where they are sleeping but Odysseus decides to go into Cyclops cave and wait for him to get back from wherever he is. When he returns he kills some of Odysseus' men, foolishly Odysseus thinks that Cyclops will help them. This makes no sense to me why he would think that and he hurt his men because of it. Sometimes Odysseus's decisions can help himself and his group and other times it can hurt him.
I definitely agree with both of you. Odysseus is much different than the average character. He takes very daring and courageous risks in order to help the shipmates and him to escape from Polyphemus. He comes up with a plan to get him drunk so that they can burn his eyes out. The one really brave and bold thing was the fact that the father of Polyphemus was looking for revenge of the whole ship crew. One thing that I feel Joe should have mentioned was the instance where he gets some of his men hurt even though he thought he was helping them out. I feel that Odyesseus doesn't always think about the bad things that could happen for his actions. All he thinks about is what is best for him and what will make him be able to escape.
I agree with you guys that Odysseus is not the average character. Odysseus is very cunning and smart. His intellect has gotten him out of many difficult situations. Odysseus’s quick thinking and great intelect helps him a lot. Such as when he escapes from the cave of the Cyclops, or when he hides his slaughter of the suitors by having his minstrel strike up a wedding tune. These show that he is a very special character but also has some flaws such as his recklessness, high ambitions, and greed.
I agree with you Joe. I would also like to add that I believe that Odyseus' excessive pride is his influence in most of his decisions. This is most evident when he refers to himself as the " spoiler of cities." Odysseus clearly doesn't care about his men or the innocent people that he had murdered, but only cares about himself. Although, Odysseus does weep when his men die he continues to make decisions which jeopardize his men's safety. But, I agree Joe with your discussion of Odysseus' cleverness. It is seen throughout his whole journey just as he is leaving Calypso when he flatters her and when he speaks to the queen and king of Phaeacia. I believe it is his cleverness has gotten him to where he is now and will be his greatest upside to returning home.
I have to disagree with Joseph and his poor grammar. Although he was smart and carefully created the plan to defeat pollyphemus he is also very foolish when carrying out his plan. As we discussed today in class it was a huge mistake for Odysseus to announce he was the one who blinded him and took fool responsibility while in the middle of the ocean. Which especially stupid because the Cyclops father is Poseidon. Another example of Odysseus being foolish and flashing his pride around is when he yells to the gods that he does not need them. Joseph I feel you do not have a full understanding of Odysseus maybe over the thanksgiving break you could reread The Odyssey and you will see that Odysseus is not the "above average" character you describe him as. Dkin
Joe, I can partially agree with you about Odyseuss being smart while at the same time, I am unsure of if he is this "great" leader he may appear to be. Although I must agree with you that he indeed is a very "gusty" type of character which makes him both a great leader but at the same time, not such a smart one. You can see this from when he blinds the Cyclops while providing him fals information about he portrays to be as someone else. Another point from that one scene is how he endangers his men and everybody else. Although, it did seem like he was doing what was best for his men, he did show great courage and leadership, but he could have done really something bad. He luckily just lucked out.
One point that was brought up in class and interest me is the fact of whether or not it is Odyesseus fault for all of his comrades dying. I believe it is and it is shown at numerous parts. One part in particular is when Odyesseus leads his men to Cyclops. All though I wrote about this for my quiz I do feel as if I left out a lot of detail. One major detail that supports the case is that there was no need to go to the cave in the first place. Everyone was ready to leave and Odyesseus even says himself no I'm not really ready to go, lets check out this cave. Because of this his comrades did get eaten and the rest of them were captured. Ultimately this is one of the most important parts in the book because it is due to their capture that Odyesseus finds it necessary to blind Cyclops by using the hot staff and because of Odyesseus' actions he and his comrades are on the "naughty list" if you will. Because of that more deaths happen until eventually ships start getting destroyed and everyone dies. All in all Odyesseus is to blame. He could of easily left and went back to his ship but no he didn't and because of it the gods are angry.
I have to disagree with you Phil. I don't think you can put the majority of the blame for the deaths of the comrades on Odysseus. It is definitely justifiable to blame Odysseus for the two deaths in the cave when the comrades get eaten, but the majority of the blame should be put on the comrades themselves for their own deaths. My reasoning for this is the majority of the deaths and destroyed ships don't occur until after the comrades make Odysseus open the sack of winds which send them in the other direction away from Ithica. If they never told Odysseus to see if the sack was full of silver and gold and kept it closed, they would have arrived home only losing two comrades. Instead, after they lose the winds, the ships are sent to the land of giants who eventually throw boulders at the ships and only Odysseus' ship survives.
I agree with you Phil. It was not reasonable for Odysseus to bring his men into the Cyclops's cave and even more unreasonable to wait for the Cyclops to return. Odysseus is without a doubt responsible for the death of his men. Also due to his decisions, Odysseus was forced to blind the Cyclops, only to anger Poseidon. By angering Poseidon, he again jeopardizes his comrades lives while traveling on the sea. I feel that while Odysseus is a smart and cunning, he is not suitable to be a leader. He is irresponsible with the lives of his men and is only concerned with himself. CLio
I agree with you Phil. Odysseus had made some mistakes that got some of his men killed, but because of his quick wit and cunning behavior he got most of his men out of those situations. His men also got Odysseus into a lot of trouble. Opening the bag of winds was one example of when his men brought danger and despair upon themselves.
Adding to what Schwarz said, Odysseus made a lot of mistakes that got his men killed such as when the men went along with him to the cyclops's lair and many of them got killed by him and on the journey over seas. Odysseus is shown as a very smart character by his actions but also a very ambitious and confident person by him wanting to go to the cyclops's lair. If it wasn't for his smart he probably wouldn't have escaped there. Then he goes over seas again with his men and more of them die because of the monster in the sea so I think it is Odysseus' fault for all of these deaths.
While reflecting whether or not Odysseus is at fault for the many deaths in his crew, I began to perceive the crew as a liability. Odysseus seeks more than the typical man, which is exactly what his crew members are. Odysseus seeks adventure and this may bring the skills of an average man to the test. He is also seen as generous throughout the novel, sharing the loot in which the crew pillages. But, loot and adventure is nothing in comparison to Odysseus’ desire for his name to be heard. Many times throughout the Odyssey it is revealed that Odysseus’ fame is very important to him. First, Odysseus asks the bard to sing of the Trojan horse, Odysseus “prize-winning” plan that turned the tides of The Battle of Troy, leading to the Greek victory. Another example is when he and his crew are leaving the Cyclops’ island and are unmistakably in the clear, and Odysseus is seen shouting his name out back to the Cyclops. While Odysseus himself is just and fair, it is his ego that endangers himself and his crew. Yet, even though Odysseus leads his men into danger, his men have no excuse to complain. They all fought in the mighty battle right along Odysseus, and are supposed to be Greek warriors; but in fact, they just bring Odysseus down by getting captured, not listening to Odysseus’ orders, and even plotting against Odysseus by opening the bag of wind. The act of opening the bag of wind after all the trust and fairness Odysseus has invested in his crew is disrespectful and unforgiveable. It is unclear whether Odysseus is unaware of his crew’s limitations or he is just not completely concerned for their individual wellbeing. Despite this display of imperfect leadership, Odysseus is ultimately burdened by his crew member’s lesser abilities, which leads him to push them beyond their limitations in order to reach his goals. Odysseus cannot be held responsible for each and every crew member’s wellbeing, he can only be charged with the outcome of their plight.
I understand what you are saying Tom however the winds aren't totally at blame for the deaths. After the bag of winds was destroyed Odysseus lead them to the two headed monster. Odysseus knew they were approaching this monster and it was guaranteed that six people would die. Why didn't he just try to go around? Another point is when the monster started to attack them Odysseus just stood watch and did nothing as seen on page 99. Yes we can say that it's the comrades fault for destroying the bag of winds but Odysseus could of found another route. Plus it's Odysseus' fault in the first place that the gods are angry.
We discussed in class today that Odysseus is a character that is demanding. While Odysseus is recounting his journey back home, we see that he had killed people from the island of the Ciconians. He took women and "great stores of treasure". He then demanded that he and his men leave the island, "but they, in their utter folly, did not heed". As a result of this Odysseus and his men were forced to retreat after the remaining Ciconians fled for help and came back willing to battle Odysseus. Later on in the retelling of his journey home, Odysseus talks about when he blinded the Cyclops. He gave the Cyclops wine and got it drunk and the Cyclops had fallen asleep. Odysseus says to the Cyclops, " If ever mortal man asks you the story of the ugly blinding of your eye, say that Odysseus made you blind." Odysseus is demanding that the Cyclops tell everyone who blinded him so Odysseus would receive some form of recognition. Odysseus then sacrifices a lamb of the Cyclops to Zeus and then he pays the consequences. He loses more of his men as a result. "Thence we sailed on, with aching hearts, glad to be clear of death, though missing our dear comrades".
In class we have asked the question "Why is Odysseus our hero?". Through out the Odyssey Odysseus is depicted as the "spoiler of cities", the wisest man of all, and even compared to the gods. However as I read further into the text I came to realize that Odysseus is just a simple man, no different from any of us. He weeps, mourns, boasts, and everything in between.
I agree, Odysseus is put on this pedestal, and seems to be equal to gods, but through the epic he is proving more and more that he is a regular person like everybody else. I think that it is ironic that he lands on an island, Pheacea, that is considered to be as close to the gods as possible. While in Pheacea, it seems Odysseus becomes more human. He cries, and is embarrassed by it, he brags about his accomplishments to the people, and he seems vulnerable and cannot get home. I do believe that Odysseus is a hero, but he should be respected, not worshipped.
I agree Odysseus is not as great as he is characterized. In The Odyssey, Odysseus is glorified as this great person who is considered almost to be a God among his people. Odysseus is not this great person because he is very manlike. He is seen crying and sobbing like a woman, he is very ambitious, arrogant, and reckless. Eurymachus has the right thoughts on Odysseus. Eurymachus calls Odysseus reckless and blames him for the death of his people. Odysseus is very reckless and he is very arrogant. Odysseus blinded the Cyclops and told the Cyclops that it was Odysseus son of Laertes and from Ithaca. The Cyclops thought it was some one else but because of his arrogance he got his men killed and put in danger. Odysseus is not at all like the gods because he is hindered by greed and a thirst for glory. Even though a thirst for glory can be good it can lead to his downfall. His greed in the cave of the Cyclops caused him to be trapped and caged. And his thirst for glory caused many of his men's deaths when he ravaged the Cicones town.
Personally, what I like most about the character of Odysseus is his 'human side'. As stated, “Odysseus like many weeps, mourns, boasts, etc.” What differentiates Odysseus from the typical man is his willpower and desire to expand his intelligence and even use his intelligence to best his performances. Because of this Odysseus, in my opinion, is extremely influential. I also believe Odysseus should undoubtedly be glorified because he is in fact, a hero. If there is anything to dislike about Odysseus, it is his ego. He puts his ego before others, in particular his crew. Even so, Odysseus shouldn’t be any less glorified since everyone has some sort of fault; and he has previously been compared to as a simple or regular person. Consequently, I believe not only that Odysseus is in fact a hero, but deserves his rightful glorification and respect for all his honorable feats.
Absolutely Mike, Odysseus is very human. He has emotions like humans and he makes mistakes like humans. Although he is posses many talents he should not be worshipped like a statue or like a god. He should just be complimented on his many talents and accomplishments. He is a hero, but not your typical caring hero. He is more of a selfish hero.
With the discussion that took place in class today, I realized a whole different point of the text. Odysseus and his men share some of the same characteristics that ultimately back fire in the end. Odysseus tells his men to leave the town after he murders innocent people, his men don’t care to listen and become greedy by taking all they can get which in the end gives the enemy time to fall back and before you know it Odysseus’ men are being killed off. The troops under Odysseus’ leadership are arrogant, which is one of Odysseus’ biggest downfalls in his personality. The hubristic characteristic is showed when he demands “stranger’s due” from Cyclops. He explains that he is one with the Gods, trying to install fear into Cyclops. Then following that tells Cyclops that he was the one who blinded him. Odysseus gives his name, his fathers name, and where he lives to Cyclops which was his biggest mistake, because Poseidon is the ruler of the sea and makes Odysseus’s journey difficult by using his power. In the end his arrogance puts him at danger. CCar
Throughout the Odyssey, we as readers see the common theme of gluttony leading to tragedy among characters. Homer shows this through numerous situations in the text including when Poseidon's son, the cyclops, drank an abundance of wine given to him by Odysseus. When the Cyclops began drinking the wine he gave Odysseus the gift of being the last one of his men to get eaten and then passed out from drinking too much (he was gluttonous). This allowed Odysseus to blind the Cyclops due to his gluttony. Another situation that Homer uses to portray the theme of gluttony leading to tragedy is when Odysseus' men pillaged a village while off course on their trip. They were greedy and did not need to pillage the town but did so anyway. This lead them to be thrown off course by intense winds and as an effect, some of Odysseus' men were killed. Homer shows the reader, through the events portrayed in the story, that gluttony will only lead to misfortune and tragedy. CLio
Chris I completely agree with you, I too found that homer has used this theme of gluttony throughout my readings greatly. I also found that there is a common theme of greed throughout this epic. When Odysseus receives the bag of winds for his trip home he is very confident he will finally be able to go home. However, after 9 days one of his crew members becomes greedy and believes the bag contains gold so he secretly opens the bag and all the winds are released at once cause the ship to wreck and all the crew members die except for Odysseus. Because of the crew members actions of greed, he cause his death and the rest of the crew members and also puts off Odysseus journey back home.
Despite my bafflement of Homer's The Odyssey, I feel I have finally gained an understanding of Odysseus. Odysseus is an arrogant man with accomplishments to back it up. Being arrogant means you always care more about yourself. Odysseus cares more about himself then his men. Not saying he doesn't care about his men, he just puts himself ahead of his men. His arrogance also leads to ignorance. His feeling of his men's demises are that death is justified by the grounds of war. In my opinion he is a selfish hero with self-esteem issues.
i agree ed Odysseus cannot be considered a good leader due to the fact that he is overcome with arrogance and has a selfishly high perception of himself.Odysseus jumps at any chance he gets to be graced with more glory than he already has Odysseus cannot just sail away and relish in the success of their escape from such a terror. Instead he must claim all the glory of the trickery for himself, resulting in his entire crew being punished by the sea god Poseidon. If Odysseus had been a good leader the fact that his men had escaped safely would have been enough of a reward for him, but due to his selfish manner he was more concerned with gaining recognition than the well being of his crew. Odysseus sees himself as invincible and will stop at nothing
So far I am enjoying the Odyssey. I was always intrigued by Greek and Roman mythology and it is nice to read a work in which I show interest in. I feel that Odysseus will encounter more than we expect him to on his journey home. We've already read about him facing the cyclops and the power of the gods, but now that he is down to a handful of men, I sense that things are just about to climax. If this is true, I know for a fact that I will enjoy the rest of the book even more than I have already. I would 100% like to read the Illiad as the two works go together. With that being said, I think that by having an in depth background of the Illiad, we would be able to better understand and appreciate the works that Homer had written.
Anthony, I agree fully with all your opinions here. This text has been truly intriguing and i know I speak for a lot of us when i say we're all looking forward to the rest of it. I do agree with you that there will be a climax soon, talking about the journey Odysseus and his men have been through, it will truly be interesting as to have things turn out!
Anthony and Joe, I agree with both of you.Reading this book has made me like these mythologies a lot more. I was not a big fan of mythology before this to be perfectly honest, but this is by far the most interesting piece of literature we have read all year. We should praise authors like these because of their minds and to keep readers into the piece. These books are so old and still top sellers. It is people like this that make people want to read and make people want to open up there minds to different ideas. B'OSu
I found The Odyssey to be generally engaging, and this particular translation to be very well done. This book provides a truly amazing and unique glimpse into the culture of the ancient Greeks that would be a shame to miss. While it wasn't my favorite curriculum-based reading choice, and despite the fact that any reading at all that is done for school becomes all the more tedious for it, the book was intriguing enough to keep me with it until the end. It is exactly the type of book that is used in the classroom primarily because it has enough blood, guts, violence, and sex to string along even the most skeptical teenage boys. While reading in-depth descriptions of men's brains being bashed out against cave walls isn't exactly my cup of tea, I've got to say it was a far cry more interesting than some of the other texts I've had to read this year.
I agree with you Mazza, The Odyssey is very different than other books we have read this year. Although memorizing many names of the Greek Gods can be confusing, it also provides us a different perspective towards their culture. The beginning of the book is very misleading and might end up boring you to death. However, as I continued reading, the story became more fast paced and I was able to pay attention to the plot. All the characters have different personalities especially Odysseus who is blamed for the trouble he has caused to the Gods. Many members of his crew die from the cyclops, but they also had free will. Odysseus never forced them to come along with him on his journey. Consequently, I cannot wait to see what happens further into the book.
Tom, I agree with everything you said. This book has interesting things that keep the reader hooked and keeps the reader entertained with all of the action that happens. When there is nothing particularly happening in the book, you can use your imagination and visualize the events in your head. I think the thing that gets me in this book is that it is in ancient times and with all of the Gods and their capabilities you don't know what is going to happen next. This book is very suspenseful and anything can happen at any given time. To read a book like this you have to be an avid reader and someone who can use their imagination to see things. B'OSu
I am glad so many of you are picking up on the extent that Odysseus illustrates the human condition. He is of course the hero and in some ways "god-like"; however, Homer is attentive to show his faults and vulnerabilities as well. If you remember when I first introduced the epic, I highlighted that Homer is a master at showing the human plight. Nice job paying attention to details, guys! And, may I take this opportunity to welcome Tom to the blog! Better late than never, Kid! Glad to see you here.
Throughout reading The Odyssey, what strikes my eye is Odysseus. To me, he is a very interesting character. Overall he is a very arrogant, self-centered, ambitious character. What offsets his arrogance and so on is that he may show "feminine" signs from crying which is questionable to be seen as a god, because everyone would normally think, that kings or gods have no soft spots. Although, I believe he is a very gusty type of person. Being seen from taking on The Cyclops and blinding him and telling him false information about who he was, he nearly gets all of his men killed along with everything else. I am extremely anxious to read on and find out what happens next because I would love to see what Odyseuss's next moves are. Being that he is a very intriguing character from being arrogant and ambitious so showing his soft spots, I would like to see if his personality leads him to success. What makes this book even more interesting is my own interest in Greek gods and mythology because I was always into this kind of stuff especially from seeing movies such as Clash of the Titans and so on.
In class we have discussed about whether or not Odysseus is to blame for the death of his men. I would have to say that he is responsible for losing his men. He is blinded by his hubris and eventually leads most of his men to their deaths. This makes Odysseus an awful leader. Also earlier in the book we saw him crying when the people sang about him. This also shows how Odysseus is not the person to have the reputation that he has. He is supposed to be a tough man wit honor, but here we have a prideful man who is crying like a woman. Thus, he is the complete opposite of his reputation. This man is supposed to be brave, kind, calm, and a good leader, but he is actually the opposite because he only acts on the basis of himself. He does not care if he loses men or not. He should not have the reputation that he has.
I do agree with you with Chris in saying that Odysseus is to blame for the death of his men. However, I don't think that he is a terrible leader. Yes, he is hubristic, but that doesn't make him a terrible leader. Odysseus tried to prevent him and his men from being in danger. When he first attacked the Ciconians he told his men that they must leave but his men don't listen to him. His comrades are the reason that they die in that case. They don't heed his warning and they pay the consequences for it.
After hearing the discussions in class the past week I realized that Odysseus is a very bold and brave character. But the only downfall to his character is that he is an arrogant person. One example that supports his arrogant nature would be when he led his ship men into the Cyclops's cave. Everyone was ready to go and he said to himself that he wasn't. By going into the cave he got many of the ship mates eaten. After this happened Odysseus devised up a plan in which he would burn the eyes out of Polyphemus. This was a very daring move because now Polyphemus' father wants revenge on Odysseus and the ship crew. All in all he only cares about himself and not the safety of the crew members. By going into the cave he got the gods angry which later lead to other events that make the journey even harder for them to conquer.
Going back to the quizz essay question that we did in class, I think that The gods are to blame for most of the deaths that occur during Odysseus' journey. However, i do feel that Odysseus should take some responsibilities for some of the men's deaths. For example, after he blinds the cyclops, he shouts out and says " Cyclops, if ever mortal man asks you the story of the ugly blinding of your eye, say that Odysseus made you blind, the spoiler of cities, Laertes' son, whose home is Ithaca." Here, Odysseus basically says whoever wants to know who blinded thhe cyclops, here i am and heres where to find me if you have a problem. So, you could say that Odysseus was asking for what ever he got. He wanted the glory for blinding a beast and saving the lives of his men, but in reality i do see how he invited Posiden to make his life a living hell. MPer
Mike I have to disagree with you here. I do not think that Odysseus should take responsibility for the deaths. Maybe he could feel grateful that men would show such loyalty to him, but they knew what they were getting themselves into. It isn't so much anyone's fault. But I do agree that the gods could have watched over him a little more. They did stir up trouble along the way, especially Poseidon with the storm and Zeus with the north wind. I am curious to see how things will turn out for Odysseus on his journey.
I feel the death of elpenor is very symbolic. Elpenor had died because he got drunk and climbed to the top of the ship and when he heard some noises he fell off. In short he died as a result of his own stupidity. I deal that his death symbolized the reasons for the many other deaths. The first act of foolishness is when the crew members became suspicious of odysseous hiding gild. Because if this they rip open the bag of winds and send themselves far from their homeland causing many of them to die trying to go threw a horrible journey. The next form of stupidity that causes death is when odysseous proclaims that he is the one who blinds the Cyclops only furthering the theme of stupidity causing their deaths.
Through every obstacle Odysseus and his sailors face, Odysseus shows courage and wisdom that surpasses his shipmates', but he also displays some of the same weaknesses they have. The sailors open the bag Odysseus received from Aeolus, who controls the wind, thinking that Aeolus had given him money. Instead, they release the winds and are blown off course. This act illustrates the greed of the sailors, but Odysseus also faults by his greed and arrogance on the island of the Cyclops. He wants so badly to have the honor of escaping the Cyclops that Odysseus stupidly shouts his name back to the Cyclops. As a result, the Cyclops becomes increasingly angry and almost kills them by throwing giant rocks into the sea beside them. Again, both the crewmembers and Odysseus display a similar weakness at the island of Circe. Both suffer from overindulgence. Odysseus stays for an entire year at the island sleeping with Circe when he had a wife waiting for him back in Ithica. Similarly, one of the sailors, Elpenor, overindulges on wine and passes out on the roof. The next morning, he awakens too quickly and falls off the roof to his death. Even though Odysseus has great courage, his selfishness almost gets him and his entire crew killed.
Throughout the novel of the Odyssey by Homer, Odysseus' reckless behavior ultimately leads to the fall out of his men. Thus we've spoken about this topic thoroughly throughout the week of class, however, it's a huge part of the story line. The question that I've asked myself is, could Odysseus and his reckless behavior possibly foreshadow any later events that will occur down the line? However, I believe Odysseus' reckless behavior is shown throughout the story especially by when the Cyclops feasts off of his men. While approaching the cave, Odysseus' men asked him if he can quickly grab food and run off. Despite his men asking him, he went wandering off. As the cyclops returns, his men are trampled and 6 of them were chewed up. Afterwards, Eurylochus then speaks of Odysseus' reckless behavior by saying "Such deeds the Cyclops did when to his lair our comrades came, and with them went this reckless man, Odysseus; for through his folly those men also perished." Through this quote, its suggested that Odysseus clearly is the prime reason for the death of his men.
Despite Odysseus' reckless behavior being a flaw that ultimately led to the perish of his men, another "flaw" that can easily be identified throughout Homer's novel is Odysseus' ego. Although Odysseus believes that he is a very persuasive speaker who is welcomed by all, it is clear that his ego grows to be a little too big when it comes time to meet face to face with the cyclops. As Odysseus and his men roam around the cyclops' cave in search of food and water, the cyclops approaches the squad. Having to face the Cyclops, Odysseus speaks out and proclaims himself saying "We are from Troy, Achaeans driven by shifting winds out of our course across the great gulf of the sea……But chancing here, we come before your knees to ask that you will offer hospitality, and in other ways as well will give the gift which is the stranger's due." Here we can truly acknowledge and understand the type of ego and persuasive speaker Odysseus truly feels that he is. However, this completely backfired. Hoping to persuade the cyclops into offering his hospitality, the cyclops tears through Odysseus' men. Ultimately, we can easily identify that Odysseus clearly should relax a little bit. His ego will get him no where and clearly it only got him and his men into an unfortunate situation.
After the discussion and reading in class Odysseus seems like a character that displays honor, bravery and intelligence. Despite all the struggles he has been through in his journey he stays determined to reach his destination with his men. The struggles he face are a great tests to his strength and perseverance under pressure. The struggles he face primarily are due to the faults of his men. When the men eat the fruit of the lotus Odysseus faces the task of saving his men from the addictive fruit. When the men want the cheeses from the cyclops cave they get captured, although 6 men die Odysseus still displays heroic attributes by blinding the cyclops and helping his men escape from further danger. And finally when the men open up the bag of winds they end up in the land of Laestygonia where they get boulders thrown at their ships only leaving Odysseus' ship left. After reading the first 100 plus pages Odysseus certainly displays strength and perseverance and lives up to his reputation during the adversities his men cause for him.
I think my punishment was to find a video of the Odyssey and give a summary of it. So here’s the video http://youtu.be/PglAFdKSJ_M . This is the animation video of Homer’s book The Odyssey, this video is animated by Ian Timothy. This video is basically a summary of the book the Odyssey in video form. It shows how Odysseus has a struggle to return home after the Trojan War and ends up stranded on Calypso’s Island. The son and wife of Odysseus have no clue where he is. Finally Odysseus is let go and ends up on the shore of Phaeacia. Many of Odysseus men died on their journey, some deaths were Odysseus fault and some was their own faults. When Odysseus and his men are on their way back home to Ithica, his men’s greed overwhelmed them. They open a bag given to Odysseus which was under strict orders not to be opened. The crew’s irresponsible actions send them from the shores of Ithica back to Aeolia. Some of the men deaths were also when they were captured by the locus eaters. Finally, after a little time Odysseus goes back to Ithica, he gets transformed into a beggar. Odysseus and Telemachus reunite with each other. Odysseus and Telemachus plan to kill the suitors and they succeed in doing so. Odysseus at the end shows traits of arrogance and being ruthless. For example he kills two of the suitors even though they ask for mercy. Homer uses human condition to describe the traits that make Odysseus human. At the end of the Odysseus and wife Penelope show love again and the suitors move on with their lives. Thanks everyone for agreeing for me to do this. It was so much fun.
As we have discussed the Odyssey in class one thing that stood out to me was the personality and identity of Odysseus. Odysseus is portrayed as handsome, wise, smart, brave, humble, and a man that displays honor. These characteristics have also shaped his personality as someone who is honorable, brave, and someone that may resemble a God.These characteristics have been both good and bad for Odysseus in the story. The positives are that through these characteristics he was able to help win the Trojan War for the Atheans and get Helen back for Menelaus. These characteristics have also saved his life numerous times and the great wit or wisdom he posses helps him to solve great problems. Odysseus wit and intellect is the greatest of anyone that is in the human-world as Zeus says. The negative effect of these characteristics are that people tend to like him more and more and want to marry and keep him like Calypso. The king later in the story and the daughter also want him to stay and then get married however Odysseus desperately wants to go back to Ithaca to his wife, son, and his kingdom. Odysseus' personality and characteristics also please the God's and especially Athena who is trying to do everything in her power to get Odysseus back home. Although Odysseus had angered Poseidon and him being the reason that Odysseus hasn't reached home safely yet the Gods have a plan to send him home and truly represents that they have sympathy for him and are amazed at how he has faced difficulty after difficulty and through his wit overcome every single one.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Gary. Odysseus has to be smart in order to not offend the people who want him to marry their daughters. And if it wasn't for Odysseus the Trojan War could have gone on for another ten years. At first Athena is the only god who wants to help Odysseus get home while the other gods don't care. But Athena is able to convince them to help him get home and also uses it as a way to help Telemachus become a man just like his father.
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I agree with you gary, another point i can add to your post is that although this is an epic and he is a "god", he resembles a human. When he gets upset he tends to cry over things. This doesn't mean that he is a baby, like you said Odysseus is a brave, wise, and humble man who ended the Trojan war! He just wants to get back home to be with his family, but if he has trouble getting home, he has a right to be upset. It is not a negative or positive characteristic but i think is interesting to notice about Odysseus within the epic, that he tends to get upset when he sits down and realizes that he just wants to return back to his family, but it is becoming so difficult for him to return home.
DeleteI agree and disagree with Gary. I agree that Odysseus is portrayed as wise, smart, brave, humble and honorable. I think that these characteristics make him god-like, but to a certain extent. For example when Odysseus goes to the Phaiecens, and cries when they play the song about Troy, he feels remorse because he knows what he did at Troy. This could be shown as a sign of weakness that the gods would never show. But, later on when they almost praise the way that the Greeks won the Trojan war, we see a bit of arrogance come out in Odysseus as he admires his own work in the Trojan war. This arrogance is an almost standard characteristic of the Greek gods, such as the almighty Zeus, and Poseidon
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I definitely agree with you guys, but I think mike said it best of how Odysseus can be wise, smart, brave, humble, and honorable, but also have a side to him that shows how he does have some weakness. As you all said Odysseus shows his "god-like" characteristic when he was able to help the Greeks win the Trojan War for the Atheans. I want to add to this by saying I feel he also shows these characteristics when Odysseus and his ship members escape from Polyphemus, Odysseus was smart enough to figure a plan to get away without anyone of his shipmates getting killed or hurt in which he succeeded doing. So I feel like these "god-like" characteristic really are shown here because he was smart, wise and brave about doing this because the father of Polyphemus is looking for revenge against Odysseus and his ship members. But, on the other hand as Mike and Nick said Odysseus can also show some weakness when he cries when the song is playing at Troy. Another way he shows weakness and bad decision making is when his violence towards the suitors almost causes a war. Odysseus loves to taunt and tease his enemies and I feel like if he really was resemblance of a god he would not do this. So, I feel that Odysseus does have moments when his god-like characteristic are good, but he also have some negative and weakness traits.
DeleteIn class we discussed how Telemachus is not brave enough to speak up to the suitors to get them out of his home and believes he can't live up to his fathers reputation. It is not till Athena comes to Telemachus as Odysseus' friend from the war does he become more brave to speak up to the suitors to try and get them out. He's actually brave enough to go on his first adventure in search of his father. But Telemachus also knows that everyone knows Odysseus is the great war hero who helped win the war and feels it is hard for him to live up to his fathers reputation.
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I believe that Telemachus was always brave, even from the start of the epic. At first Telemachus' feebleness can be attributed to the fact that he has had no role model to follow or teach him how to act. Deep down inside I believe Telemachus is the same has his father, cunning, witty, and brave.
DeleteNow that we read further and actually met Odysseus I think that Telemachus is the complete opposite of his father. We can see that Odysseus is a hubristic man who is responsible for the death of many of his followers. Telemachus is a person who hasn't really done anything and does not seem to care. As Dominick said Telemachus didn't do anything until Athena came to him. After meeting his father I feel that Telemachus doesn't have to live up to his father's reputation. His father is a man who seems to be only concerned about himself. He is not doing things for the benefit of everyone else. He is merely acting for his own pride. Thus Telemachus should not have to live up to his fathers reputation because his father only did it for pride in himself. Telemachus should make a name for himself and not have to be made into the image of his father.
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In my previous blog I have stated how Odysseus' characteristics have shaped his personality, however these characteristics also serve to show a human form of Odysseus. The characteristics in specific that show Odysseus being human are greed and arrogance. For example when Odysseus is staying in Phaencia and King Alcinous orders there to be dancing and singing, Odysseus requests the Bard to sing about the Trojan Horse and about the royal Odysseus. Odysseus in a way does this to recall the memories of the Trojan War but is being arrogant because everyone is familiar with the story and he in a sense is doing it to hear good praise about himself. An example of Odysseus being greedy is when he is on the journey to return home, Odysseus stops at one of the islands where "there I destroyed the town and slew its men.. and took great stores of treasure" although in this time period it was survival of the fittest, this image we receive of Odysseus is of a greedy killer than is contrarily to what we picture in our heads of him being noble and humble. Shortly after they come some island and decide to rest and eat and make merry with all the wine and riches that they captured from the Ciconians that Odysseus see smoke coming from one of the islands and displays arrogance once again by saying "… go to discover who these men may be- if they are fierce and savage… no kind to strangers and reverent toward the gods." Odysseus is being arrogant because he thinks of himself as great and a valor warrior that should be treated with respect and honor and these men are having a feast and merry time without him. Then we see the human quality of greed again when he takes with him special wine that was given to him by Maron to try to give to the strangers and in return receive a gift of great value and size. Lastly we see Odysseus being arrogant when he escapes from death and says to the Cyclop " when i was far away I shouted, .. no weakling's comrades you were destined to devour in the deep cave with your brutal might… it was also destined your bad deeds should find you out…" just add salts to the wounds of the Cyclops and then ironically Odysseus and his crew might have gotten stranded on the island when the Cyclops in anger throws the top of the hill toward the ship and a great wave emerged as the stone hit the bottom of the ocean. The traits of arrogance and greed surely create a human form for Odysseus and might create more problems going forth on this long journey toward home.
ReplyDeleteTwo important themes that i observed in this epic are Perseverance and Loyalty. For the theme of perseverance, Odysseus has been away from his home for 20 years. 10 during the trojan war and 10 during his journey back home. On his journey back home Odysseus shows traits of courage, determination, and wit. Odysseus wants to return home so that he can show that he made it back alive after ending the Trojan war. He wants to return home to his family and town in order to gain the respect he deserves. Another example is when calypso held him captive for a couple of years and he was unable to trick nor fight his way out. For the theme of loyalty, the entire time Odysseus is away both his wife and son stay loyal to him by staying true to their family and not giving up on him. Penelope stays faithful to Odysseus and does not fall for any of the suitors that she is tempted by. One of the most difficult tasks Odysseus is faced with is when the goddess-nymph tempts him with immortality but Odysseus turns it down, stays loyal and is determined to return home.
ReplyDeleteNick, loyalty is shown throughout the work not only by the Gods and Goddesses but also by the comrades of Odysseus, Odysseus’ comrades agree to go in the cave with him knowing that something seemed sketchy, hence the fact that they wanted to board the ship and go fourth with their journey back home. In essence they trust the word of Odysseus and follow behind him thinking that their leader will not lead them into any harm. His men become martyrs of war because they eventually are eaten by the Cyclopes. Therefor the theme of loyalty repeats. This also shows that being loyal can ultimately bite you in the end, no pun intended. You also left out the point that his son Telemachus is loyal to his father, going on a journey to find him knowing that he may or may not come out alive. I believe this is a strong trait that is shown throughout the family and will come together to help the family later in the story.
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I agree with both nick and chris in saying loyalty is a strong theme showed throughout this epic. I think it is important that Odysseus and his men are on the same page because they will have better chemistry together. I think if you are in a battalion of men that it is important to trust your leader because he is the leader for a reason and uses great judgment. His job is to prepare you and give best judgment possible and the comrades make sure to trust their leader odysseus. I dont feel like it will come to back to bite you if you stay true to who you are. you must trust your leader no matter what and trust he will lead you to victory like odysseus tried his best to lead his men to vicotry as well.
DeleteThe women in the Odyssey are displayed as very cunning. Penelope is constantly harassed by many suitors daily. These suitors take what they and do what they please. This is shown when they live off of Odysseus' land despite protests from Telemachus. Penelope finds a way to keep the aggressive suitors at bay by making them an empty promise that if when she finishes weaving a burial cloak, she'll choose her husband, but every night she would unravel it making it an endless cycle. In the work Helen willingly goes with the Trojans sparking the Trojan War. She deceives the people and insists she was taken, and would praise her husband Menelaus in front of people to convince people she is completely dedicated to her husband. In both examples, the women use their wit in order to get through their troublesome situations.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you kryollos. The women in this work display a very cunning personality. Penelope unweaves the part of the cloak that she worked on during the day everynight. She does this because she made a promise to chose her new husband among the suitors after finishing the cloak. Helen is another cunning women. The war started over her being taken away. Her husband and country thought she was captured but they did not know that she willing left. In these times women were still inferior to men and were thought of as dependent. Penelope and Helen use their wits that the men of this time dont believe they have. The men see them as innocent and dependent yet Penelope and Helen out smart the men of this work rather easily. Penelope and Helen are able to keep up their acts of fooling the men for a while.
Deleteyour a bum
DeleteI found so far that this work may be trying to show sympathy for Odysseus and his family. Odysseus is still struggling to make his glorious return home after 20 years away because of a war. Half of which were spent on an island with Calypso who fell so inlove with Odysseus she had him trapped there with her. Odysseus has his loyal wife Penelope and his son Telemachus, who has yet to get to know him, waiting for him at home. Odyssues finally gets freed of Calypso by the gods but is still running into obstycles as he fighs his way home. Penelope is fighting to remain loyal to Odysseus as she has numerous suitors who seem to be taking Odysseus' possessions at their will. Penelope is doing what she can to remain faithful that Odysseus will return home. Penelope also uses stalling tactics to prevent picking a new husband. She promises to chose a husband after she is done weaving a cloak for Odysseus' father. Everynight Penelope unweaves what she had done for the day with the cloak. Telemachus has been a timid and weak boy his whole life due to not having his father there as he grew up. Telemachus finally builds enough courage, after help from Athen to go on a search for his father. Telemachus is now struggling to find himself on his journey to finding Odysseus. Telemachus doesnt seem like he will be the hero his father was during the war.
ReplyDeleteA characteristic in which Odysseus possesses which I believe may be his most crucial to his returning home is his cleverness with words. A prime example in which Odysseus uses his great speaking ability when preparing to leave Calypso to go to Phaeacia. When the nymph offers the option of staying to rule her kingdom to Odysseus he says, "Powerful Goddess, do not be worth at what I say. Full well I know that heedful Penelope, compared with you, is poor to look upon in height and beauty..." Odysseus is flattering Calypso in order for her not to be upset or angry with his leaving. Another time you see Odysseus' brilliance with words is when first approaching the king and queen of Phaeacia. Knowing in order to get accepted by the people of this isolated island is being approved by the queen first he throws himself at her feet and says, "Arete, daughter of divine Rhexenor, to your husband I am come, and to your knees, through many toils, and to these feasters too. The gods bestow upon them the blessing of long life, and to his children may each one leave the wealth within his hall and every honor men have given. But quickly grant me aid to reach my native land; for long cut off from friends I have been meeting hardship." Again, Odysseus is flattering the Queen by throwing himself at her feet and ultimately making her feel sympathy for him being away from his home land. These words get him accepted by the Queen and King and the people who will help him to move onward in his journey.
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I agree with your analysis Gary. To add onto what you have already said, I believe Odysseus' encounter with Nausicaa also supports your thesis. When presented with an awkward situation, Odysseus uses good word choice to "help him move onward in his journey" as Gary stated. Odysseus states, "For I never before saw such a being with these eyes- no man, no woman. I am amazed to see." Odysseus acknowledges a physical trait such as Nausicaa's eyes in order to flatter her and to make her feel more comfortable with him. He then goes on to say, "…I admire and marvel now at you, and greatly fear to touch your knees." Again, Odysseus tries to flatter Nausicaa and later we see his method of flattering eventually benefits him as he gets directions to the palace of the Phaeacians which may help him get back home. In conclusion, Odysseus agains uses his "cleverness with words" in order to "move onward in his journey."
DeleteIn reading over this past weekend, I was really intrigued by one thing: seeing the greed in Odysseus's shipmates. When Odysseus speaks with Aeolus, Aeolus gives him a bag full of wind in which Odysseus can use to get him and his crew back home. After 9 days pass they're just about almost home. But, many of the crew members suspect the bag of wind to actually contain gold and silver as a gift to Odysseus. The crew members feel they deserve fortune and as a result they rip open the bag, only to have all the wind be released into the air. Because of this selfishness and greed on the part of the shipmates, the boat is once lost again and eventually lands back with Aeolus and onto the island of the Laestrygonians, where many of the crew members die. Ultimately, this greed led to severe consequences, in this case death, for the ship mates.
ReplyDeleteJDiC
I completely agree with you Joe, while reviewing this literary work and hearing the discussions in class I to see the greed in Odysseus's shipmates. Odysseus refuses immortality but receives a godly power of controlling the wind. He just wants to get back to his family whose been waiting for him for many years and he just keeps on getting set back from his journey. The shipmates basically killed themselves by opening up the bag of winds, lucky for Odysseus he survived but is once again set back from his journey.
DeleteI agree with both of you guys. The shipmates greed eventually causes their own death because of opening the bag of winds. All Odysseus wanted to do was to have a nice trip home after spending the last 20 years of his life away from home. This intrigued me in class the past couple of days because of the fact that Odysseus was blamed for the killing of his men by not stepping up and helping them out meanwhile the men caused death to themselves, in this case their greed. These men made the journey home hard for Odysseus. In the end, this deed comes back to bite them which is why greed is the root of all evil.
DeleteJVer
I agree with all of you guys that greed takes over Odysseus' shipmen but I also see gluttony as another major flaw the men posses. These two flaws are prominent reasons why Odysseus' journey has become a struggle and a true test of his character and god-like attributes. Gluttony is shown when the men eat the fruit of the lotus and entreat Odysseus to take food from Polyphemus' cave. Greed is shown, as mentioned, when the men open the bag of winds thinking gold and silver were inside. Because of these flaws Odysseus must try to save himself as well as his men. He saves his men from the fruit, by forcing them back on the boat, but after that it becomes more and more of a struggle for Odysseus. While getting the food from the cyclops' cave he and his men are captured as food for Polyphemus, 6 men perish and Odysseus is left to be a hero. And when the men open the bag of winds they end up on the land of Laestygonia, where boulders were thrown at their ships by the gods leaving only Odysseus' ship unharmed. Greed and Gluttony do play a major role in Odysseus' journey in a negative way.
DeleteWhile reading over the weekend, I've taken note that Odysseus is not your average character. Odysseus is daring and takes risks when he has to. In my opinion, Odysseus is smart about the risks that he makes especially when he and his ship men escape from Polyphemus. Odysseus devises a plan to get Polyphemus drunk and in the end after Polyphemus was passed out the crew and Odysseus burn Polyphemus's eyes out. This is a daring move because of the fact that Polyphemus's father is looking for vengeance on Odysseus and his crew. Although it was a daring move for Odysseus to devise a plan to escape it was a must or else these men would have been stuck in the cave for a long time. I don't necessarily blame Odysseus for doing this move because he was doing what was best at the time for the crew and to get home.
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I agree Joe, Odysseus does take very daring daring risks in order to escape the situation he and his shipmates are in. In some situations he is able to help them escape as in the time you mentioned but there are times when his men get killed because of his daring risks. The instance where he gets his men hurt is when they are on the land of Cyclops and they are safe on the beach where they are sleeping but Odysseus decides to go into Cyclops cave and wait for him to get back from wherever he is. When he returns he kills some of Odysseus' men, foolishly Odysseus thinks that Cyclops will help them. This makes no sense to me why he would think that and he hurt his men because of it. Sometimes Odysseus's decisions can help himself and his group and other times it can hurt him.
DeleteI definitely agree with both of you. Odysseus is much different than the average character. He takes very daring and courageous risks in order to help the shipmates and him to escape from Polyphemus. He comes up with a plan to get him drunk so that they can burn his eyes out. The one really brave and bold thing was the fact that the father of Polyphemus was looking for revenge of the whole ship crew. One thing that I feel Joe should have mentioned was the instance where he gets some of his men hurt even though he thought he was helping them out. I feel that Odyesseus doesn't always think about the bad things that could happen for his actions. All he thinks about is what is best for him and what will make him be able to escape.
DeleteJDeM
I agree with you guys that Odysseus is not the average character. Odysseus is very cunning and smart. His intellect has gotten him out of many difficult situations. Odysseus’s quick thinking and great intelect helps him a lot. Such as when he escapes from the cave of the Cyclops, or when he hides his slaughter of the suitors by having his minstrel strike up a wedding tune. These show that he is a very special character but also has some flaws such as his recklessness, high ambitions, and greed.
DeleteI agree with you Joe. I would also like to add that I believe that Odyseus' excessive pride is his influence in most of his decisions. This is most evident when he refers to himself as the " spoiler of cities." Odysseus clearly doesn't care about his men or the innocent people that he had murdered, but only cares about himself. Although, Odysseus does weep when his men die he continues to make decisions which jeopardize his men's safety. But, I agree Joe with your discussion of Odysseus' cleverness. It is seen throughout his whole journey just as he is leaving Calypso when he flatters her and when he speaks to the queen and king of Phaeacia. I believe it is his cleverness has gotten him to where he is now and will be his greatest upside to returning home.
DeleteNick, where did your second example come from?
DeleteI have to disagree with Joseph and his poor grammar. Although he was smart and carefully created the plan to defeat pollyphemus he is also very foolish when carrying out his plan. As we discussed today in class it was a huge mistake for Odysseus to announce he was the one who blinded him and took fool responsibility while in the middle of the ocean. Which especially stupid because the Cyclops father is Poseidon. Another example of Odysseus being foolish and flashing his pride around is when he yells to the gods that he does not need them. Joseph I feel you do not have a full understanding of Odysseus maybe over the thanksgiving break you could reread The Odyssey and you will see that Odysseus is not the "above average" character you describe him as.
DeleteDkin
Joe, I can partially agree with you about Odyseuss being smart while at the same time, I am unsure of if he is this "great" leader he may appear to be. Although I must agree with you that he indeed is a very "gusty" type of character which makes him both a great leader but at the same time, not such a smart one. You can see this from when he blinds the Cyclops while providing him fals information about he portrays to be as someone else. Another point from that one scene is how he endangers his men and everybody else. Although, it did seem like he was doing what was best for his men, he did show great courage and leadership, but he could have done really something bad. He luckily just lucked out.
DeleteJSch
One point that was brought up in class and interest me is the fact of whether or not it is Odyesseus fault for all of his comrades dying. I believe it is and it is shown at numerous parts. One part in particular is when Odyesseus leads his men to Cyclops. All though I wrote about this for my quiz I do feel as if I left out a lot of detail. One major detail that supports the case is that there was no need to go to the cave in the first place. Everyone was ready to leave and Odyesseus even says himself no I'm not really ready to go, lets check out this cave. Because of this his comrades did get eaten and the rest of them were captured. Ultimately this is one of the most important parts in the book because it is due to their capture that Odyesseus finds it necessary to blind Cyclops by using the hot staff and because of Odyesseus' actions he and his comrades are on the "naughty list" if you will. Because of that more deaths happen until eventually ships start getting destroyed and everyone dies. All in all Odyesseus is to blame. He could of easily left and went back to his ship but no he didn't and because of it the gods are angry.
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree with you Phil. I don't think you can put the majority of the blame for the deaths of the comrades on Odysseus. It is definitely justifiable to blame Odysseus for the two deaths in the cave when the comrades get eaten, but the majority of the blame should be put on the comrades themselves for their own deaths. My reasoning for this is the majority of the deaths and destroyed ships don't occur until after the comrades make Odysseus open the sack of winds which send them in the other direction away from Ithica. If they never told Odysseus to see if the sack was full of silver and gold and kept it closed, they would have arrived home only losing two comrades. Instead, after they lose the winds, the ships are sent to the land of giants who eventually throw boulders at the ships and only Odysseus' ship survives.
DeleteI agree with you Phil. It was not reasonable for Odysseus to bring his men into the Cyclops's cave and even more unreasonable to wait for the Cyclops to return. Odysseus is without a doubt responsible for the death of his men. Also due to his decisions, Odysseus was forced to blind the Cyclops, only to anger Poseidon. By angering Poseidon, he again jeopardizes his comrades lives while traveling on the sea. I feel that while Odysseus is a smart and cunning, he is not suitable to be a leader. He is irresponsible with the lives of his men and is only concerned with himself.
DeleteCLio
I agree with you Phil. Odysseus had made some mistakes that got some of his men killed, but because of his quick wit and cunning behavior he got most of his men out of those situations. His men also got Odysseus into a lot of trouble. Opening the bag of winds was one example of when his men brought danger and despair upon themselves.
DeleteAdding to what Schwarz said, Odysseus made a lot of mistakes that got his men killed such as when the men went along with him to the cyclops's lair and many of them got killed by him and on the journey over seas. Odysseus is shown as a very smart character by his actions but also a very ambitious and confident person by him wanting to go to the cyclops's lair. If it wasn't for his smart he probably wouldn't have escaped there. Then he goes over seas again with his men and more of them die because of the monster in the sea so I think it is Odysseus' fault for all of these deaths.
DeleteWhile reflecting whether or not Odysseus is at fault for the many deaths in his crew, I began to perceive the crew as a liability. Odysseus seeks more than the typical man, which is exactly what his crew members are. Odysseus seeks adventure and this may bring the skills of an average man to the test. He is also seen as generous throughout the novel, sharing the loot in which the crew pillages. But, loot and adventure is nothing in comparison to Odysseus’ desire for his name to be heard. Many times throughout the Odyssey it is revealed that Odysseus’ fame is very important to him. First, Odysseus asks the bard to sing of the Trojan horse, Odysseus “prize-winning” plan that turned the tides of The Battle of Troy, leading to the Greek victory. Another example is when he and his crew are leaving the Cyclops’ island and are unmistakably in the clear, and Odysseus is seen shouting his name out back to the Cyclops. While Odysseus himself is just and fair, it is his ego that endangers himself and his crew. Yet, even though Odysseus leads his men into danger, his men have no excuse to complain. They all fought in the mighty battle right along Odysseus, and are supposed to be Greek warriors; but in fact, they just bring Odysseus down by getting captured, not listening to Odysseus’ orders, and even plotting against Odysseus by opening the bag of wind. The act of opening the bag of wind after all the trust and fairness Odysseus has invested in his crew is disrespectful and unforgiveable. It is unclear whether Odysseus is unaware of his crew’s limitations or he is just not completely concerned for their individual wellbeing. Despite this display of imperfect leadership, Odysseus is ultimately burdened by his crew member’s lesser abilities, which leads him to push them beyond their limitations in order to reach his goals. Odysseus cannot be held responsible for each and every crew member’s wellbeing, he can only be charged with the outcome of their plight.
DeleteI understand what you are saying Tom however the winds aren't totally at blame for the deaths. After the bag of winds was destroyed Odysseus lead them to the two headed monster. Odysseus knew they were approaching this monster and it was guaranteed that six people would die. Why didn't he just try to go around? Another point is when the monster started to attack them Odysseus just stood watch and did nothing as seen on page 99. Yes we can say that it's the comrades fault for destroying the bag of winds but Odysseus could of found another route. Plus it's Odysseus' fault in the first place that the gods are angry.
DeleteWe discussed in class today that Odysseus is a character that is demanding. While Odysseus is recounting his journey back home, we see that he had killed people from the island of the Ciconians. He took women and "great stores of treasure". He then demanded that he and his men leave the island, "but they, in their utter folly, did not heed". As a result of this Odysseus and his men were forced to retreat after the remaining Ciconians fled for help and came back willing to battle Odysseus. Later on in the retelling of his journey home, Odysseus talks about when he blinded the Cyclops. He gave the Cyclops wine and got it drunk and the Cyclops had fallen asleep. Odysseus says to the Cyclops, " If ever mortal man asks you the story of the ugly blinding of your eye, say that Odysseus made you blind." Odysseus is demanding that the Cyclops tell everyone who blinded him so Odysseus would receive some form of recognition. Odysseus then sacrifices a lamb of the Cyclops to Zeus and then he pays the consequences. He loses more of his men as a result. "Thence we sailed on, with aching hearts, glad to be clear of death, though missing our dear comrades".
ReplyDeletePFol
In class we have asked the question "Why is Odysseus our hero?". Through out the Odyssey Odysseus is depicted as the "spoiler of cities", the wisest man of all, and even compared to the gods. However as I read further into the text I came to realize that Odysseus is just a simple man, no different from any of us. He weeps, mourns, boasts, and everything in between.
ReplyDeleteI agree, Odysseus is put on this pedestal, and seems to be equal to gods, but through the epic he is proving more and more that he is a regular person like everybody else. I think that it is ironic that he lands on an island, Pheacea, that is considered to be as close to the gods as possible. While in Pheacea, it seems Odysseus becomes more human. He cries, and is embarrassed by it, he brags about his accomplishments to the people, and he seems vulnerable and cannot get home. I do believe that Odysseus is a hero, but he should be respected, not worshipped.
DeleteI agree Odysseus is not as great as he is characterized. In The Odyssey, Odysseus is glorified as this great person who is considered almost to be a God among his people. Odysseus is not this great person because he is very manlike. He is seen crying and sobbing like a woman, he is very ambitious, arrogant, and reckless. Eurymachus has the right thoughts on Odysseus. Eurymachus calls Odysseus reckless and blames him for the death of his people. Odysseus is very reckless and he is very arrogant. Odysseus blinded the Cyclops and told the Cyclops that it was Odysseus son of Laertes and from Ithaca. The Cyclops thought it was some one else but because of his arrogance he got his men killed and put in danger. Odysseus is not at all like the gods because he is hindered by greed and a thirst for glory. Even though a thirst for glory can be good it can lead to his downfall. His greed in the cave of the Cyclops caused him to be trapped and caged. And his thirst for glory caused many of his men's deaths when he ravaged the Cicones town.
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DeletePersonally, what I like most about the character of Odysseus is his 'human side'. As stated, “Odysseus like many weeps, mourns, boasts, etc.” What differentiates Odysseus from the typical man is his willpower and desire to expand his intelligence and even use his intelligence to best his performances. Because of this Odysseus, in my opinion, is extremely influential. I also believe Odysseus should undoubtedly be glorified because he is in fact, a hero. If there is anything to dislike about Odysseus, it is his ego. He puts his ego before others, in particular his crew. Even so, Odysseus shouldn’t be any less glorified since everyone has some sort of fault; and he has previously been compared to as a simple or regular person. Consequently, I believe not only that Odysseus is in fact a hero, but deserves his rightful glorification and respect for all his honorable feats.
DeleteAbsolutely Mike, Odysseus is very human. He has emotions like humans and he makes mistakes like humans. Although he is posses many talents he should not be worshipped like a statue or like a god. He should just be complimented on his many talents and accomplishments. He is a hero, but not your typical caring hero. He is more of a selfish hero.
DeleteWith the discussion that took place in class today, I realized a whole different point of the text. Odysseus and his men share some of the same characteristics that ultimately back fire in the end. Odysseus tells his men to leave the town after he murders innocent people, his men don’t care to listen and become greedy by taking all they can get which in the end gives the enemy time to fall back and before you know it Odysseus’ men are being killed off. The troops under Odysseus’ leadership are arrogant, which is one of Odysseus’ biggest downfalls in his personality. The hubristic characteristic is showed when he demands “stranger’s due” from Cyclops. He explains that he is one with the Gods, trying to install fear into Cyclops. Then following that tells Cyclops that he was the one who blinded him. Odysseus gives his name, his fathers name, and where he lives to Cyclops which was his biggest mistake, because Poseidon is the ruler of the sea and makes Odysseus’s journey difficult by using his power. In the end his arrogance puts him at danger.
ReplyDeleteCCar
Throughout the Odyssey, we as readers see the common theme of gluttony leading to tragedy among characters. Homer shows this through numerous situations in the text including when Poseidon's son, the cyclops, drank an abundance of wine given to him by Odysseus. When the Cyclops began drinking the wine he gave Odysseus the gift of being the last one of his men to get eaten and then passed out from drinking too much (he was gluttonous). This allowed Odysseus to blind the Cyclops due to his gluttony. Another situation that Homer uses to portray the theme of gluttony leading to tragedy is when Odysseus' men pillaged a village while off course on their trip. They were greedy and did not need to pillage the town but did so anyway. This lead them to be thrown off course by intense winds and as an effect, some of Odysseus' men were killed. Homer shows the reader, through the events portrayed in the story, that gluttony will only lead to misfortune and tragedy.
ReplyDeleteCLio
Chris I completely agree with you, I too found that homer has used this theme of gluttony throughout my readings greatly. I also found that there is a common theme of greed throughout this epic. When Odysseus receives the bag of winds for his trip home he is very confident he will finally be able to go home. However, after 9 days one of his crew members becomes greedy and believes the bag contains gold so he secretly opens the bag and all the winds are released at once cause the ship to wreck and all the crew members die except for Odysseus. Because of the crew members actions of greed, he cause his death and the rest of the crew members and also puts off Odysseus journey back home.
DeleteCArn
Despite my bafflement of Homer's The Odyssey, I feel I have finally gained an understanding of Odysseus. Odysseus is an arrogant man with accomplishments to back it up. Being arrogant means you always care more about yourself. Odysseus cares more about himself then his men. Not saying he doesn't care about his men, he just puts himself ahead of his men. His arrogance also leads to ignorance. His feeling of his men's demises are that death is justified by the grounds of war. In my opinion he is a selfish hero with self-esteem issues.
ReplyDeletei agree ed Odysseus cannot be considered a good leader due to the fact that he is overcome with arrogance and has a selfishly high perception of himself.Odysseus jumps at any chance he gets to be graced with more glory than he already has Odysseus cannot just sail away and relish in the success of their escape from such a terror. Instead he must claim all the glory of the trickery for himself, resulting in his entire crew being punished by the sea god Poseidon. If Odysseus had been a good leader the fact that his men had escaped safely would have been enough of a reward for him, but due to his selfish manner he was more concerned with gaining recognition than the well being of his crew. Odysseus sees himself as invincible and will stop at nothing
DeleteSo far I am enjoying the Odyssey. I was always intrigued by Greek and Roman mythology and it is nice to read a work in which I show interest in. I feel that Odysseus will encounter more than we expect him to on his journey home. We've already read about him facing the cyclops and the power of the gods, but now that he is down to a handful of men, I sense that things are just about to climax. If this is true, I know for a fact that I will enjoy the rest of the book even more than I have already. I would 100% like to read the Illiad as the two works go together. With that being said, I think that by having an in depth background of the Illiad, we would be able to better understand and appreciate the works that Homer had written.
ReplyDeletei love you franch
DeleteAnthony, I agree fully with all your opinions here. This text has been truly intriguing and i know I speak for a lot of us when i say we're all looking forward to the rest of it. I do agree with you that there will be a climax soon, talking about the journey Odysseus and his men have been through, it will truly be interesting as to have things turn out!
DeleteJDiC
Anthony and Joe, I agree with both of you.Reading this book has made me like these mythologies a lot more. I was not a big fan of mythology before this to be perfectly honest, but this is by far the most interesting piece of literature we have read all year. We should praise authors like these because of their minds and to keep readers into the piece. These books are so old and still top sellers. It is people like this that make people want to read and make people want to open up there minds to different ideas.
DeleteB'OSu
I found The Odyssey to be generally engaging, and this particular translation to be very well done. This book provides a truly amazing and unique glimpse into the culture of the ancient Greeks that would be a shame to miss. While it wasn't my favorite curriculum-based reading choice, and despite the fact that any reading at all that is done for school becomes all the more tedious for it, the book was intriguing enough to keep me with it until the end. It is exactly the type of book that is used in the classroom primarily because it has enough blood, guts, violence, and sex to string along even the most skeptical teenage boys. While reading in-depth descriptions of men's brains being bashed out against cave walls isn't exactly my cup of tea, I've got to say it was a far cry more interesting than some of the other texts I've had to read this year.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Mazza, The Odyssey is very different than other books we have read this year. Although memorizing many names of the Greek Gods can be confusing, it also provides us a different perspective towards their culture. The beginning of the book is very misleading and might end up boring you to death. However, as I continued reading, the story became more fast paced and I was able to pay attention to the plot. All the characters have different personalities especially Odysseus who is blamed for the trouble he has caused to the Gods. Many members of his crew die from the cyclops, but they also had free will. Odysseus never forced them to come along with him on his journey. Consequently, I cannot wait to see what happens further into the book.
DeleteTom, I agree with everything you said. This book has interesting things that keep the reader hooked and keeps the reader entertained with all of the action that happens. When there is nothing particularly happening in the book, you can use your
Deleteimagination and visualize the events in your head. I think the thing that gets me in this book is that it is in ancient times and with all of the Gods and their capabilities you don't know what is going to happen next. This book is very suspenseful and anything can happen at any given time. To read a book like this you have to be an avid reader and someone who can use their imagination to see things.
B'OSu
I am glad so many of you are picking up on the extent that Odysseus illustrates the human condition. He is of course the hero and in some ways "god-like"; however, Homer is attentive to show his faults and vulnerabilities as well. If you remember when I first introduced the epic, I highlighted that Homer is a master at showing the human plight. Nice job paying attention to details, guys! And, may I take this opportunity to welcome Tom to the blog! Better late than never, Kid! Glad to see you here.
ReplyDeleteMrs. F, based on your opinions in this post I believe you should give us all 25 out of 25 !!!
DeleteJDiC
Throughout reading The Odyssey, what strikes my eye is Odysseus. To me, he is a very interesting character. Overall he is a very arrogant, self-centered, ambitious character. What offsets his arrogance and so on is that he may show "feminine" signs from crying which is questionable to be seen as a god, because everyone would normally think, that kings or gods have no soft spots. Although, I believe he is a very gusty type of person. Being seen from taking on The Cyclops and blinding him and telling him false information about who he was, he nearly gets all of his men killed along with everything else. I am extremely anxious to read on and find out what happens next because I would love to see what Odyseuss's next moves are. Being that he is a very intriguing character from being arrogant and ambitious so showing his soft spots, I would like to see if his personality leads him to success. What makes this book even more interesting is my own interest in Greek gods and mythology because I was always into this kind of stuff especially from seeing movies such as Clash of the Titans and so on.
ReplyDeleteJSch
In class we have discussed about whether or not Odysseus is to blame for the death of his men. I would have to say that he is responsible for losing his men. He is blinded by his hubris and eventually leads most of his men to their deaths. This makes Odysseus an awful leader. Also earlier in the book we saw him crying when the people sang about him. This also shows how Odysseus is not the person to have the reputation that he has. He is supposed to be a tough man wit honor, but here we have a prideful man who is crying like a woman. Thus, he is the complete opposite of his reputation. This man is supposed to be brave, kind, calm, and a good leader, but he is actually the opposite because he only acts on the basis of himself. He does not care if he loses men or not. He should not have the reputation that he has.
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I do agree with you with Chris in saying that Odysseus is to blame for the death of his men. However, I don't think that he is a terrible leader. Yes, he is hubristic, but that doesn't make him a terrible leader. Odysseus tried to prevent him and his men from being in danger. When he first attacked the Ciconians he told his men that they must leave but his men don't listen to him. His comrades are the reason that they die in that case. They don't heed his warning and they pay the consequences for it.
DeletePFol
After hearing the discussions in class the past week I realized that Odysseus is a very bold and brave character. But the only downfall to his character is that he is an arrogant person. One example that supports his arrogant nature would be when he led his ship men into the Cyclops's cave. Everyone was ready to go and he said to himself that he wasn't. By going into the cave he got many of the ship mates eaten. After this happened Odysseus devised up a plan in which he would burn the eyes out of Polyphemus. This was a very daring move because now Polyphemus' father wants revenge on Odysseus and the ship crew. All in all he only cares about himself and not the safety of the crew members. By going into the cave he got the gods angry which later lead to other events that make the journey even harder for them to conquer.
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Going back to the quizz essay question that we did in class, I think that The gods are to blame for most of the deaths that occur during Odysseus' journey. However, i do feel that Odysseus should take some responsibilities for some of the men's deaths. For example, after he blinds the cyclops, he shouts out and says " Cyclops, if ever mortal man asks you the story of the ugly blinding of your eye, say that Odysseus made you blind, the spoiler of cities, Laertes' son, whose home is Ithaca." Here, Odysseus basically says whoever wants to know who blinded thhe cyclops, here i am and heres where to find me if you have a problem. So, you could say that Odysseus was asking for what ever he got. He wanted the glory for blinding a beast and saving the lives of his men, but in reality i do see how he invited Posiden to make his life a living hell.
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Mike I have to disagree with you here. I do not think that Odysseus should take responsibility for the deaths. Maybe he could feel grateful that men would show such loyalty to him, but they knew what they were getting themselves into. It isn't so much anyone's fault. But I do agree that the gods could have watched over him a little more. They did stir up trouble along the way, especially Poseidon with the storm and Zeus with the north wind. I am curious to see how things will turn out for Odysseus on his journey.
DeleteI feel the death of elpenor is very symbolic. Elpenor had died because he got drunk and climbed to the top of the ship and when he heard some noises he fell off. In short he died as a result of his own stupidity. I deal that his death symbolized the reasons for the many other deaths. The first act of foolishness is when the crew members became suspicious of odysseous hiding gild. Because if this they rip open the bag of winds and send themselves far from their homeland causing many of them to die trying to go threw a horrible journey. The next form of stupidity that causes death is when odysseous proclaims that he is the one who blinds the Cyclops only furthering the theme of stupidity causing their deaths.
ReplyDeleteThrough every obstacle Odysseus and his sailors face, Odysseus shows courage and wisdom that surpasses his shipmates', but he also displays some of the same weaknesses they have. The sailors open the bag Odysseus received from Aeolus, who controls the wind, thinking that Aeolus had given him money. Instead, they release the winds and are blown off course. This act illustrates the greed of the sailors, but Odysseus also faults by his greed and arrogance on the island of the Cyclops. He wants so badly to have the honor of escaping the Cyclops that Odysseus stupidly shouts his name back to the Cyclops. As a result, the Cyclops becomes increasingly angry and almost kills them by throwing giant rocks into the sea beside them. Again, both the crewmembers and Odysseus display a similar weakness at the island of Circe. Both suffer from overindulgence. Odysseus stays for an entire year at the island sleeping with Circe when he had a wife waiting for him back in Ithica. Similarly, one of the sailors, Elpenor, overindulges on wine and passes out on the roof. The next morning, he awakens too quickly and falls off the roof to his death. Even though Odysseus has great courage, his selfishness almost gets him and his entire crew killed.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the novel of the Odyssey by Homer, Odysseus' reckless behavior ultimately leads to the fall out of his men. Thus we've spoken about this topic thoroughly throughout the week of class, however, it's a huge part of the story line. The question that I've asked myself is, could Odysseus and his reckless behavior possibly foreshadow any later events that will occur down the line? However, I believe Odysseus' reckless behavior is shown throughout the story especially by when the Cyclops feasts off of his men. While approaching the cave, Odysseus' men asked him if he can quickly grab food and run off. Despite his men asking him, he went wandering off. As the cyclops returns, his men are trampled and 6 of them were chewed up. Afterwards, Eurylochus then speaks of Odysseus' reckless behavior by saying "Such deeds the Cyclops did when to his lair our comrades came, and with them went this reckless man, Odysseus; for through his folly those men also perished." Through this quote, its suggested that Odysseus clearly is the prime reason for the death of his men.
ReplyDeleteABau
Despite Odysseus' reckless behavior being a flaw that ultimately led to the perish of his men, another "flaw" that can easily be identified throughout Homer's novel is Odysseus' ego. Although Odysseus believes that he is a very persuasive speaker who is welcomed by all, it is clear that his ego grows to be a little too big when it comes time to meet face to face with the cyclops. As Odysseus and his men roam around the cyclops' cave in search of food and water, the cyclops approaches the squad. Having to face the Cyclops, Odysseus speaks out and proclaims himself saying "We are from Troy, Achaeans driven by shifting winds out of our course across the great gulf of the sea……But chancing here, we come before your knees to ask that you will offer hospitality, and in other ways as well will give the gift which is the stranger's due." Here we can truly acknowledge and understand the type of ego and persuasive speaker Odysseus truly feels that he is. However, this completely backfired. Hoping to persuade the cyclops into offering his hospitality, the cyclops tears through Odysseus' men. Ultimately, we can easily identify that Odysseus clearly should relax a little bit. His ego will get him no where and clearly it only got him and his men into an unfortunate situation.
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After the discussion and reading in class Odysseus seems like a character that displays honor, bravery and intelligence. Despite all the struggles he has been through in his journey he stays determined to reach his destination with his men. The struggles he face are a great tests to his strength and perseverance under pressure. The struggles he face primarily are due to the faults of his men. When the men eat the fruit of the lotus Odysseus faces the task of saving his men from the addictive fruit. When the men want the cheeses from the cyclops cave they get captured, although 6 men die Odysseus still displays heroic attributes by blinding the cyclops and helping his men escape from further danger. And finally when the men open up the bag of winds they end up in the land of Laestygonia where they get boulders thrown at their ships only leaving Odysseus' ship left. After reading the first 100 plus pages Odysseus certainly displays strength and perseverance and lives up to his reputation during the adversities his men cause for him.
ReplyDeleteJCro
I think my punishment was to find a video of the Odyssey and give a summary of it. So here’s the video http://youtu.be/PglAFdKSJ_M . This is the animation video of Homer’s book The Odyssey, this video is animated by Ian Timothy. This video is basically a summary of the book the Odyssey in video form. It shows how Odysseus has a struggle to return home after the Trojan War and ends up stranded on Calypso’s Island. The son and wife of Odysseus have no clue where he is. Finally Odysseus is let go and ends up on the shore of Phaeacia. Many of Odysseus men died on their journey, some deaths were Odysseus fault and some was their own faults. When Odysseus and his men are on their way back home to Ithica, his men’s greed overwhelmed them. They open a bag given to Odysseus which was under strict orders not to be opened. The crew’s irresponsible actions send them from the shores of Ithica back to Aeolia. Some of the men deaths were also when they were captured by the locus eaters. Finally, after a little time Odysseus goes back to Ithica, he gets transformed into a beggar. Odysseus and Telemachus reunite with each other. Odysseus and Telemachus plan to kill the suitors and they succeed in doing so. Odysseus at the end shows traits of arrogance and being ruthless. For example he kills two of the suitors even though they ask for mercy. Homer uses human condition to describe the traits that make Odysseus human. At the end of the Odysseus and wife Penelope show love again and the suitors move on with their lives. Thanks everyone for agreeing for me to do this. It was so much fun.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PglAFdKSJ_M
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